Generator G-424
To understand the principle of operation of the generator and relay regulator, a little theory.
Electric generator G-424 is a three-phase machine, with electromagnetic excitation. Generates alternating current. VGB-2A rectifier converts current into direct current. For normal operation of an electric machine, a relay-regulator PP-330 . The job is to regulate the voltage of the motorcycle's on-board network so that it does not exceed 14 volts.
The G-424 generator is not able to work with a discharged battery. To start the engine and increase to 2400 rpm, the motorcycle runs on a battery. Only after this threshold is exceeded does the electric generator operate in self-excitation mode.
Generator G-424 is PROHIBITED to be turned on without load!
Generator circuit G-424: 1 - cover; 2 — oil seal; 3 - rotor; 4 - stator winding; 5 - terminal block; 6 — back cover; 7 — shield assembly; 8 - rectifier block; 9 - fan; 10 — protective casing; 11 - bearing.
Troubleshooting the generator
The method for determining the malfunction was as follows (I tried several methods, since replacing the relay regulator did not help):
Indirect determination of generator performance
This method does not allow you to accurately determine the malfunction of the generator, but it can still be used to determine whether the generator is “dead,” or there is still hope and the cause of the malfunction lies elsewhere.
Disconnect the wire from terminal “Ш” on the generator. And we apply + from the battery to this terminal, bring the wrench to the generator body, it should be magnetic, not much, but it is noticeable. If it is magnetic, then the rotor winding is working properly. Turn it off.
We connect a 12 volt lamp to the “+” terminal on the generator, and the other end of the lamp to ground. And we connect “+” from the battery to the “Ш” terminal. And we turn the engine with the kickstarter, the light should light up. If this happens, then the generator is working.
In my case, the light was on, I changed the relay-regulator, but the battery still did not charge, and when the engine was running, the red battery charge control light did not go out.
Cleaning and testing the generator G 424
- I removed the generator, unscrewed the back cover, pulled out the brushes - the wear was within normal limits, they were checked with a multimeter.
- Using the probes through the windows for the brushes with a multimeter, the armature rang - “it rang”, there is no short circuit to the generator housing.
- I unscrewed the rectifier and it “ringed” like diodes, i.e. In one direction the arrow should deviate, I change the polarity, the arrow does not deviate. Those. the diodes are not “broken”, as they should be.
- I rang the stator windings - everything is normal, there is no short circuit to the housing.
Everything is in perfect order, the generator should be in good working order, so I didn’t completely disassemble it. But there is no charge. Therefore, I began to understand the operation of the relay regulator and look for the reason for it.
Reasons for digging, there is no battery charger (it dies during operation) What we have, we bought a used generator for 250 rubles. mate part from the Internet on checking the generator - um, a curve, to be honest. what was the output and how to check. we remove the generator - this makes it easier to remove the diode bridge, since without removal, if the central contact is broken, the diode bridge supposedly works, but in reality it does not. as we check already under cut:
1. take + from the battery and connect it with a wire to one of the braided terminals from the generator with the diode bridge removed, and - from the battery through the light bulb (control) we touch one of the other 2 terminals, then the other lamp
should light up 2. take + from the battery and We connect it with a wire to one of the braided terminals from the generator with the diode bridge removed, and - from the battery through the light bulb (control) we touch the generator housing; the lamp should not light up!!! 3. We take the diode bridge and in the ringing mode we attach one probe to the mark to which the output from the bridge is screwed and we ring at the place where one of the terminals from the generator is connected, everything should ring in one direction with readings of 450-490 ohms, in the other it should not ring.
in my case, my generator had a breakdown of the central contact to the housing and a live diode bridge; the generator I purchased had a dead diode bridge.
I didn’t want to continue to trust the original relay regulator and bought a relay from a VAZ with a control lamp for 110 rubles and a relay for the lamp on the tidy to work for 90 rubles.
Installing a Zhiguli relay regulator on the Dnieper or Ural for example 121.3702 for 12V You will need to change the contact pairs on the wires. You will also need a normally open or closed relay (the control light will light up when there is no charge or vice versa when it appears)
We connect the wire that went to the VZ on the PP330 (the terminal on top) to connector 15 (if you install a relay, you will need a tap from this contact to the relay)
We connect the wire that went to the terminal (Ш) to the connector (67). (make sure that the wires Ш and ~ are not mixed up (disconnect the wires Ш and ~ from the generator and call them, otherwise they will suddenly be mixed up or shorted to ground somewhere.)
We attach the mass to the metal plate of the electric relay.
There are 2 wires left (they are needed for the control lamp on the tidy, you don’t have to connect them and just isolate them.
We connect the relay: We connect the wire that went to the terminal (change) PP 330 to the connector (86). We connect the wire that went to the terminal (LC) to the connector (87). We dealt with the wires hanging in the air. We connect connector (85) to ground with a separate wire. We connect connector 30 to the wire that goes to connector (15) of the electronic relay, which is also positive from the ignition switch.
Everything works and makes me happy, we continue to work, by the way, can anyone recommend a normal box that can be installed under modern fuses? I want to replace the standard one.
Relay-regulator PP-330, troubleshooting
After I determined that the generator was working. I started searching for the faulty relay regulator. To understand the principle of its operation, a little theory.
I will not describe in detail the operation of the relay regulator; I will describe the problem that I fixed. This problem was in two relay regulators, and the reason for it was that due to a long time of inactivity of the contacts, the carbon contacts of the R.N. coil. (in the diagram above) oxidized and did not pass current.
During normal operation of all equipment, the process is as follows. When you turn the key S1: “+” from the battery is supplied to the ignition coil and to the V3 contact of the relay regulator. In the relay, power from the VZ contact passes through the RN coil. and to contact “Ш” of the generator, a rotor winding is connected to it. Thus the armature is excited by the battery. When the engine speed increases, an alternating voltage appears on the “~” contact, the R.KL relay is activated, and the warning lamp turns off.
Also, as the speed increases, the voltage at the “+” contact of the generator also increases. It is connected to the R.N. relay, when a certain voltage threshold is reached, the relay is activated and the power goes not directly through the relay coil with a small resistance, but through the load resistances, thereby reducing the voltage on the rotor. By reducing the voltage level on the rotor, the current strength decreases, and, accordingly, the magnetic force of the rotor decreases. Which leads to a decrease in voltage at the outputs of the stator windings. When the voltage in the relay R.N. decreases The relay holding current drops, thereby the R.N. contacts. return to their original state and the process repeats.
If the generator is spun up without a relay-regulator and a load, but the armature is excited, then as the speed increases, the EMF in the stator windings will increase, which theoretically can damage them (break through the insulation). Therefore, it is prohibited to turn on and spin up the G 424 generator without a load.
In my case, the carbon contacts of the R.N. relay were oxidized , thereby providing insufficient voltage to the rotor to excite it. The generator simply did not produce voltage.
Simply cleaning the contacts solved the problem .
Replacing a relay regulator on a motorcycle
Sooner or later, almost all owners of Ural or Dnepr motorcycles are faced with a battery charge problem. The standard relay-regulator type PP 330 eventually stops working correctly and needs to be cleaned or adjusted. Not every motorbike owner can competently perform these operations. Replacing with a new one is an option, but the cost of a new PP 330 is often quite high. Getting out of the situation, however, is quite simple.
After all, you can install in the regular place of the PP 330 an electronic voltage regulator of type 121.3702 for 12V from a VAZ car, which is sold in any auto store, and its cost is several times lower than the PP 330. But for this you will have to work quite a bit with the wires.
The electronic voltage regulator is installed in the standard place of the PP 330 with virtually no modifications. During the replacement process, it is necessary to additionally drill one hole in the mounting area of the regulator relay. You also need to replace the screw terminals on the wires that go to the PP with female connectors.
We connect the wire that went to the terminal (VZ) on the PP 330 (upper terminal) to the connector (15) of the electronic relay. We connect the wire that went to terminal (Ш) (lower right terminal for PP 330) to connector (67). We screw the ground wire to the metal base of the electronic relay (31) through the screw securing the housing to the platform. Two wires remain unconnected: LC - control lamp (lower left terminal) and “change” (middle lower terminal). For “lazy” motorcyclists, the conversion process can be considered complete; you just need to insulate these two wires and leave them hanging in the air, screwing them to the frame with something so that they don’t dangle. In this case, the battery will charge, but the alternator warning lamp on your motorcycle will not light up.
For those owners who are not satisfied with “half measures”, we continue the process. Together with the electronic relay regulator, you need to purchase a small relay of type RS 702 or (75.3777) with normally closed contacts from the auto shop. The RS 702 is remarkable in that when voltage is applied to the relay winding. the relay contacts open. This additional relay can be installed on one of the screws securing the electronic relay-regulator.
We connect the relay type RS 702 as follows. We connect the wire that went to the terminal (change) of PP 330 to connector (86). We connect the wire that went to the terminal (LC) to the connector (87). We dealt with the wires hanging in the air. We connect connector (85) to ground with a separate wire. We connect connector 30/51 to the wire that goes to connector (15) of the electronic relay, which is also positive from the ignition switch.
The conversion is complete, we start it and check it.
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