Hello. I have the following problem: the Dnepr K650 motorcycle, the charger disappeared for no reason, I thought that the generator brushes, and by the way, the G414 and PP302 generators were standing. I disassembled the generator and looked like everything was in order, assembled it and checked the “I” contacts on the battery “+” “Ш” to “-” and the mass of the generator to “-” the generator gear spun, conclusion: the generator is normal, I disassembled the PP302, nothing is clear from external signs, but I don’t know how to check it, so I think it might be a relay or is it something else? And who could sell Workers PP302. name the price yourself.
For testing, install initially working relays and a generator, it becomes clear that yours is not working. and so: don’t call, still break the wiring, maybe there’s a break somewhere or just oxidation. I sucked it a hundred times, how to check the charge. to search. @The best thing in life is traveling to unknown places@
There are no more relays or generators than others, if they were there I would check them right away..
https://oppozit.ru/post_84999.html though I haven’t bought it myself yet. And I’m also tired of charging, the same relay and gene. Is it because one of the terminals on the gene touches the ground (the stop that the generator presses)?
No, it does not affect ground. I don’t know what to do anymore. How else can you check whether the generator is working or not?
https://oppozit.ru/post_84999.html
It has already been written a hundred times HOW to check the six-volt relay and alternator. The author of the topic is an idiot, or a lazy person, I'm interested. Scroll through this section, my friend, and read the topics. Maybe you'll wise up.
In general, everything can be quite exciting, as it was for me. For me, somehow the regulator relay magically demagnetized the generator and I had to replace them as a set.
Checking the motorcycle's charging.
- We take a tester and set it to measure constant voltage (if there is a gradation of measurements, set it to 20 V). We measure the battery with the motorcycle not running. A fully charged battery is 12.8 - 12.9 volts (if less, it is advisable to charge the battery so that further measurements are correct, and also check the battery - you can read how to do this in the article: How to check the battery .)
- If the battery is serviceable and infected, we proceed to check the charging of the motorcycle. We measure the voltage on the battery with a tester, with the motorcycle running (idling, without consumers turned on: lights, heated handles, etc.), the voltage should be 13-15 volts. If the motorcycle charging test does not meet the criteria, move on.
- We turn on only “natural consumers” (lights), the voltage should be at least 12.8 volts (ideally, about 13.5 volts). If less, something is wrong.
- We turn on all consumers (additional equipment), if the voltage drops below 12.8 volts, try raising the idle speed to 1000 - 1100, the voltage should be at least 12.8 volts. If it is smaller, the generator does not pull all consumers (additional equipment) and may burn out.
- We give the gas 3000 - 4000 revolutions, the voltage should rise to 13 - 15 volts with all consumers turned on. On some motorcycles, the voltage rises to a maximum at 3500 -4000 rpm, and at higher rpm it drops, but not more than 13 volts (this is due to increased load at high rpm: the injectors begin to consume more power (they are open almost all the time), this is normal ). If less, something is wrong.
Checking the relay regulator and generator ZZR 400
Many owners of Japanese motorcycles experience various problems during their operation. I want to talk about one of them in more detail in my article.
Many have heard about it, and someone may have personally encountered the problem of charging the battery. Are the “Japanese” electrics really so unreliable? Which very often fails.
Let's look at this problem using the Kawasaki ZZ-R 400 motorcycle as an example.
Often the main reason for the lack of battery charge is the failure of the relay regulator, the appearance is shown in the photo:
The RR has two main tasks: 1. To rectify the three-phase alternating current generated by the generator. voltage at 13.5-14.5 V.
Most often, RR is diagnosed with two “diagnoses”:
1. “WILL NOT CHARGE”
2. “NO LIMIT”
“WILL NOT CHARGE”
The problem is caused by the “burnout” of the rectifier bridge diodes. It is enough to simply mix up the “+”/“-” when connecting the battery. Exceeding the current consumption of the motorcycle's electrics leads to the same consequences. It could be a short circuit in the wiring. As a result of the RR failure, there may be consequences of “stupid tuning” of the motorcycle - installing additional “gadgets” in the form of different lights, additional headlights, increased power lamps, MUSIC. As you know, the generator has a maximum permissible power, exceeding which does not lead to anything good.
I would like to draw special attention to “lighting” a car, which is often practiced after “hibernation” and most often happens like this: they asked the motorist to “light” your horse, put a motorcycle next to it, put on wires and began to turn the motorcycle’s starter. As a result, after some time the motorcycle will start (if you’re lucky) and the motorcycle generator begins to charge both its dead battery and the dead car battery through the RR. The load is not small!
“NO LIMIT”
The RR must cut off excess generator energy from entering the motorcycle's on-board network; if this does not happen, the battery is recharged. It is obvious that the voltage regulation circuits in the PP circuit are destroyed. Everything produced by the generator passes into the on-board network of the motorcycle (and this is about 50 V and above, at maximum engine speed). Symptoms: the battery case gets hot, the temperature is more than 40 degrees. Motorcycle lamps burn too brightly and often burn out.
The result is boiling off of the electrolyte and rapid loss of capacity.
Another reason is caused by oxidation of the contacts in the PP block. As soon as one of the generator contacts to the RR has oxidized and partially lost its conductivity, a phase imbalance immediately occurs in the generator. Oxidized contact causes local overheating in the contact connections.
To avoid this, it is necessary to measure the voltage at the battery terminals at least once a month with the engine running, and monitor the condition of the generator and PP connectors.
But sometimes it happens that no one’s playful hands got into the electrics of the motorcycle, that is, all the electrics are “stock”, the motorcycle was not “lit.” Why did the RR burn down?
Let’s not forget that a motorcycle battery is essentially a “consumable” and its service life is two to three years.
It is also subject to wear and aging, loses capacity, and its own leakage current appears. During battery operation, sediment forms on the bottom of the battery. This sediment, upon contact with the plates, discharges the battery - self-discharge occurs. And this leads to constant recharging of the battery. An additional load is placed on the relay-regulator, which causes thermal overheating and destruction of the RR. I talked about possible problems and how to avoid them, now I’ll tell you how to check the functionality of the Relay-Regulator on your own, without contacting servicemen.
To check we need:
1. Sober head;
2. Basic knowledge of electrical engineering;
3. Lamp 12V/5W , preferably with a socket;
4. Six wires, at least 30-40 cm ;
5. Three charged batteries (you can get by with one, but this requires a power supply with a constant voltage of 12 to 24 V.
6. Multimeter DT-838 (any other is possible)
During engine operation, the RR should heat up within 40-50 degrees.
If the heat sink body has a higher temperature or is completely cold. These are signs that the RR is faulty.
First of all, we measure the voltage at the battery terminals, with the engine running, at idle U = 12.5-13.8 V.
At speeds of 4000-5000 thousand U = 14.2-14.5 V and with increasing speeds, the voltage SHOULD NOT INCREASE . Under no circumstances should you check the operation of the generator by disconnecting one terminal from the battery. There is a risk of burning the switch. This method only works on “soviet cycles”.
This is what the relay regulator looks like from the terminal block connector side:
The winding of a 3-phase generator is connected to the bottom row of contacts (three yellow wires)
If something is wrong.
- Disconnect the relay regulator (remove the connector). Let's take a tester.
- We set the tester to measure resistance. We check the resistance between ground (engine) and the generator wires (three wires, usually yellow). It shouldn't exist. If at least one has it, your motorcycle's alternator has burned out.
- We check the resistance between the generator wires, the resistance should be the same, about 1 - 3 ohms. If it is more or not the same, your motorcycle's alternator has burned out.
- We set the tester to measure alternating voltage. We start the motorcycle, measure the voltage between the generator wires, it should be more than 18 volts at idle, and more than 40 volts at 3000 - 4000 rpm. If there is no or different voltage, your motorcycle's alternator has burned out.
- If the check in points 2, 3 and 4 went well, most likely your motorcycle has a faulty Relay - Regulator or, which also happens, a wiring fault (clean all terminals, check the integrity of the wires, connections to ground). If your motorcycle's generator burns out, this is the place for you: Rewinding the generator with your own hands.
Generator G-424
To understand the principle of operation of the generator and relay regulator, a little theory.
Electric generator G-424 is a three-phase machine, with electromagnetic excitation. Generates alternating current. VGB-2A rectifier converts current into direct current. For normal operation of an electric machine, a relay-regulator PP-330 . The job is to regulate the voltage of the motorcycle's on-board network so that it does not exceed 14 volts.
The G-424 generator is not able to work with a discharged battery. To start the engine and increase to 2400 rpm, the motorcycle runs on a battery. Only after this threshold is exceeded does the electric generator operate in self-excitation mode.
Generator G-424 is PROHIBITED to be turned on without load!
Generator circuit G-424: 1 - cover; 2 — oil seal; 3 - rotor; 4 - stator winding; 5 - terminal block; 6 — back cover; 7 — shield assembly; 8 - rectifier block; 9 - fan; 10 — protective casing; 11 - bearing.
Troubleshooting the generator
The method for determining the malfunction was as follows (I tried several methods, since replacing the relay regulator did not help):
Indirect determination of generator performance
This method does not allow you to accurately determine the malfunction of the generator, but it can still be used to determine whether the generator is “dead,” or there is still hope and the cause of the malfunction lies elsewhere.
Disconnect the wire from terminal “Ш” on the generator. And we apply + from the battery to this terminal, bring the wrench to the generator body, it should be magnetic, not much, but it is noticeable. If it is magnetic, then the rotor winding is working properly. Turn it off.
We connect a 12 volt lamp to the “+” terminal on the generator, and the other end of the lamp to ground. And we connect “+” from the battery to the “Ш” terminal. And we turn the engine with the kickstarter, the light should light up. If this happens, then the generator is working.
In my case, the light was on, I changed the relay-regulator, but the battery still did not charge, and when the engine was running, the red battery charge control light did not go out.
Wiring diagram Izh planet - 5, how to determine the malfunction
While easily fixing mechanical failures, motorcyclists experience difficulties if the electrics fail. It’s completely in vain, the wiring diagram of the planet Izh 5 is not complicated, it’s easy to figure out.
There is no need to have special stands and equipment for repairs. A minimum knowledge of electrical engineering and a simple avometer (tester) is enough; even often you can get by with just a test lamp.
We will tell you in more detail about the main electrical wiring components and possible malfunctions. Finding a broken wire or damaged insulation is easy (for example, a bad contact always gets hot).
In this case, we look to see if there is a spark at the coil output and at the output at the spark plug contact. Now in detail about the main wiring components of the Izh Planet.
Generator
The heart is the generator (sometimes called a magneto, but they were never used on Izh Planet). Three windings produce alternating current. For excitation, an additional coil is used instead of a permanent magnet. Therefore, it is impossible to jump start a motorcycle with a completely dead or missing battery.
Possible breakdowns in this unit:
Battery
The battery in the motorcycle is low-power. The motorcycle does not have a starter, so its task is only to supply voltage to the ignition system and the generator excitation winding during starting. Thanks to the battery, designed for 12 volts, a stable start of the fifth Planet is ensured; up to the third model, the wiring was 6 volt, and the ignition was not always clear.
Possible battery malfunctions:
- Mechanical damage - housing, plates, leakage of electrolyte.
- Loss of electrolyte density is determined by measurements using a hydrometer.
- The short circuit of the plates in the banks is detected by measuring the resistance.
- Possibly incorrect connection minus not on the body (frame) of the motorcycle - all the electronics will not work.
Ignition system
The ignition chopper is used to ignite a spark at a certain point in the piston stroke. In early modifications of the electrical wiring of Izh Planet 5, contact was mounted, later electronic.
The main malfunctions of this unit:
The ignition coil increases the voltage to several kilovolts so that the discharge can ignite a spark at the spark plug electrodes. The secondary winding is made of a fairly thin wire; most often it burns out. Although a breakdown between the turns or onto the housing is also possible. The same troubles can (but less often) happen to the primary circuit. Everything is revealed using resistance measurements.
Headlight and alarm lamps
Regular incandescent lamps are used; it is not difficult to find a burnt coil.
Switching elements
These include switches (high-low, turns, engine stop, etc.) as well as brake and neutral sensors and the ignition switch. You can easily “ring” them with a tester, finding out which contact group is not working.
As can be seen from all of the above, the wiring on Izh Planet is without any special secrets or complex elements, all its parts are easily diagnosed and repairs should not cause difficulties.
Now we advise you to watch the video, which shows in detail and clearly the assembly of the Izh Planet 5 circuit.
Relay-regulator PP-330, troubleshooting
After I determined that the generator was working. I started searching for the faulty relay regulator. To understand the principle of its operation, a little theory.
I will not describe in detail the operation of the relay regulator; I will describe the problem that I fixed. This problem was in two relay regulators, and the reason for it was that due to a long time of inactivity of the contacts, the carbon contacts of the R.N. coil. (in the diagram above) oxidized and did not pass current.
During normal operation of all equipment, the process is as follows. When you turn the key S1: “+” from the battery is supplied to the ignition coil and to the V3 contact of the relay regulator. In the relay, power from the VZ contact passes through the RN coil. and to contact “Ш” of the generator, a rotor winding is connected to it. Thus the armature is excited by the battery. When the engine speed increases, at contact "
» alternating voltage appears, the R.KL relay is activated, and the control lamp turns off.
Also, as the speed increases, the voltage at the “+” contact of the generator also increases. It is connected to the R.N. relay, when a certain voltage threshold is reached, the relay is activated and the power goes not directly through the relay coil with a small resistance, but through the load resistances, thereby reducing the voltage on the rotor. By reducing the voltage level on the rotor, the current strength decreases, and, accordingly, the magnetic force of the rotor decreases. Which leads to a decrease in voltage at the outputs of the stator windings. When the voltage in the relay R.N. decreases The relay holding current drops, thereby the R.N. contacts. return to their original state and the process repeats.
If the generator is spun up without a relay-regulator and a load, but the armature is excited, then as the speed increases, the EMF in the stator windings will increase, which theoretically can damage them (break through the insulation). Therefore, it is prohibited to turn on and spin up the G 424 generator without a load.
In my case, the carbon contacts of the R.N. relay were oxidized , thereby providing insufficient voltage to the rotor to excite it. The generator simply did not produce voltage.
Simply cleaning the contacts solved the problem .
Ignition system
The ignition chopper is used to ignite a spark at a certain point in the piston stroke. In early modifications of the electrical wiring of Izh Planet 5, contact was mounted, later electronic.
The main malfunctions of this unit:
- Burning of breaker contacts is determined visually.
- Failure of a sensor or switch elements - the easiest way to detect it is to use the method of installing a known-good unit. The lubrication system sensor valve is also checked using the same method.
- An incorrectly set ignition timing is visible from the fuzzy operation of the engine. It can be eliminated by adjustment using special probes.
The ignition coil increases the voltage to several kilovolts so that the discharge can ignite a spark at the spark plug electrodes. The secondary winding is made of a fairly thin wire; most often it burns out. Although a breakdown between the turns or onto the housing is also possible. The same troubles can (but less often) happen to the primary circuit. Everything is revealed using resistance measurements.
Messages [1 to 20 of 25]
1↑ Topic from Rostik73RU 07/23/2017 13:39:16
- Rostik73RU
- Experienced
- Inactive
- Registered: 27-04-2017
- Messages: 112
- Motorcycle: Imz 8-103-30 Imz 8-103-10
Subject: no charging
The motorcycle was in the garage for 2 weeks, today I started it, but there was no charger. I changed the recharger to a pre-working one, and it still doesn’t work. The contacts checked everything fine everywhere. The wiring is straight, are there any other options other than getting into the generator?
2↑ Reply from andre52 07/23/2017 15:42:30
- andre52
- Elder
- Inactive
- Name: Andrey
- From: Nizhny Novgorod (region)
- Registered: 15-01-2017
- Messages: 1 088
- Reputation: 116
- Motorcycle: Ural M67-36 1983, IMZ-8.103.10 1988
Re: charging lost
There is an option to clear all critical connections.
3↑ Reply from Rostik73RU 07/23/2017 15:51:28
- Rostik73RU
- Experienced
- Inactive
- Registered: 27-04-2017
- Messages: 112
- Motorcycle: Imz 8-103-30 Imz 8-103-10
Re: charging lost
There is an option to clear all critical connections.
4↑ Reply from andre52 07/23/2017 22:06:02
- andre52
- Elder
- Inactive
- Name: Andrey
- From: Nizhny Novgorod (region)
- Registered: 15-01-2017
- Messages: 1 088
- Reputation: 116
- Motorcycle: Ural M67-36 1983, IMZ-8.103.10 1988
Re: charging lost
5↑ Reply from Rostik73RU 07/24/2017 16:05:14
- Rostik73RU
- Experienced
- Inactive
- Registered: 27-04-2017
- Messages: 112
- Motorcycle: Imz 8-103-30 Imz 8-103-10
Switching elements.
These include switches (high-low, turns, engine stop, etc.) as well as brake and neutral sensors and the ignition switch. You can easily “ring” them with a tester, finding out which contact group is not working.
Switching also includes the Izh electronic turn signal relay. Its malfunction is visible by the absence of interruption or no voltage supply to the turn signals.
As can be seen from all of the above, the wiring on Izh Planet is without any special secrets or complex elements, all its parts are easily diagnosed and repairs should not cause difficulties.
